Wednesday, July 23, 2008

24kg ROP C&P Milestone

Weight: 177 lbs


Double 32kg x 1 x 10 swings

Conventional Dead Lift (lbs):
205 x 10 x 1
220 x 8 x 1
235 x 5 x 1
250 x 2 x 1

There is a definite warm-up period for these. Specifically, today the 220s felt lighter than the first five 205s. I was able to hit the high end of all the suggested number of singles per set as designated by Rif. The only exception was for the 235 where I performed five instead of six.

Although the two 250 singles were challenging and I did not have to sacrifice form . Also, I used the visualization technique described in The Purposeful Primitive before each rep of the last two sets. I also had been practicing the PTTP's Fast Forward Tension technique for presses and dead-lifts during the week.


24kg x 5 x (1,2,3,4,5) Clean and Press Ladders (PR)

No push presses this time. Amazingly my left shoulder had no problem except for the very last rep of the last rung of the last set, where I had to really grind it out. The negatives were all very strong and my lats were engaged throughout.

This might be my biggest accomplishment to date considering how bad my left shoulder was when I started KB training in June of 2007. At that time, I could not press the 16kg on my left for even a single without intense discomfort. I believe a good part of this progress is due to adding back 32kg TGUs two to three times a week to my training for the past five weeks.

According to ETK, I have completed the 24kg ROP and should consider transitioning to the 32kg for C&Ps. Unfortunately, I can only do a singles with my right so that's out. Apparently this is common problem and when I searched on the DD forum, it yielded a plethora of suggestions:
  1. Remove the Cleans and work back up to 5 x (1,2,3,4,5) with only MPs
  2. Add two or three more ladders
  3. Switch to working up to twenty sets of 5/5
  4. Switch to EDT presses and pull-ups
  5. Change the leverage by doing Sots and/or bottoms-up presses
  6. Increase the density of the 5 ladders by resting the absolute minimum between rungs and ladders
  7. Use the 32kg but do clean and push press ladders (C&PP) and slowly transition some of lower rungs to presses
  8. Use the 32kg but do long cycle clean and jerks (LCCJ) and slowly transition some of lower rungs to presses
  9. Buy a 28kg bell and use that instead of the 32kg

  • More volume hence more time pressing would drive me nuts and my pre-geezer body can't take it .. that out rules 2,3 and 4.
  • BUPs are too hard on my grip and Sots presses just plain bite the big one .. 5 is out.
  • I don't like increasing the density as I don't want anymore hypertrophy or weight gain .. 6 is also out.
  • That leaves 1, 7 , 8 and 9. As for 1, I don't want to give up working my cleans and I don't want to separate them out to a separate lift.
  • My s.o. swears she will leave me if I spend another nickel on kettlebells so out goes 9. That leaves C&PP (7) vs LCCJ (8).
  • Since C&PP actually use triceps (albeit sparingly) and I had good success using this for my weaker left side and my some of clients had success with it. Thus I will go with 7.
24kg x 10 x 20 Mixed one and two handed swings
Time: 11 minutes for 200 reps.

24kg x 1 x 5/5 Dead Hang Snatch

Each swing set was on the minute except for an additional minute rest after set seven. This was a very high volume day and so far I feel very good .. although I can't stop eating!


Colin said...

I was in the same boat as you find yourself now having completed the 5 ladders with 24kgs. It took me ages to complete in a session and my shoulders didn't like the high volume.

I began to do what you suggest (my jerks/push presses are more or less the same thing) but in the supplement that comes with ETK Pavel mentions how you won't be able to stay tight in the mid section for strict M Press using this approach. You may want to re-visit it if this is your ultimate goal.

Great work though btw.

Howie Brewer said...

Ha! I know the feeling about buying more kb's. Luckily, I haven't hit that point yet. =)

Why don't you try throwing in some timed sets? You know the drill? And I think you are wise to select a Long Cycle Something. Get your push and pull together in the same movement. Brilliant!

Aaron Friday said...

Well done, Franklin! Feels good to check that one off the list, eh?

I'm assuming you'll switch to strict presses after awhile, and #7 seems like the perfect way to ease into it.

Here are a couple other ideas:
* Switch to a set or two of 10/10
* Use a pair of 24s

Taikei Matsushita said...

7,8 is incidental. I only see push press as a drug, illusion that you can press but this movement skips alot of essentials in kettlebell press.

People can press 24kg both properly and improperly, which both appears the same but internal strength wise different. Flaws reveal when you go for 32kg because bell's larger.

Do same rungs except with tighter form. Glutes squeezed and abs tight, Forearm perpendicular to ground as possible (may not be 90 degrees but not 45 or 60 degrees).
Try to press 32kg with both left/right regardless you can lift or not. Take the same intensity to 24kg.

Franklin B Herman, RKC said...


Thanks! I was aware of Pavel's disdain for replacing the MP with the PP. On the other hand it worked very well on my weak left side with the 24kg .. so as they say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"


The thing with owning multiple bells .. at the end of the day I could probably live the rest of my life just training with one 24kg and still get stronger and stronger but it wouldn't be as fun and I gotta have fun!

The closest to a timed cycle will be training for the TSC 5 minute snatch test. However, one is allowed to set the bell done unlike a traditional GS set.


Thanks, man. I thought the ROP 24kg was hopeless. These training methods are so incredible and flexible that one can always find a new one or tweak an old one to continue make progress.

I like both of your ideas and will add them to the bag of tricks available when I get stuck with my C&PP approach.


I did C&P feed-forward tension practice for several weeks to properly groove all the points you are talking about and applied to the 5 ladders. Learning how to press properly was one of the best parts of my RKC Cert.

Your idea to continue to try and press the 32kg using all the tension techniques is a good one. The C&PPs are only a means to get to C&P and not an end to themselves.